Stuart Carlisle continues his conversation with John Ward about the Zimbabwe team's extended tour.

One of the problems Stuart had on that tour as a whole was that he frequently made a good start to an innings, scored about 20 or 30 runs and then got out just when he seemed to be on the verge of something big. However, in the final match of the tour, he put all that behind him with a superb century against Australia that almost won the match for his team. This was also on the bouncy pitch at Perth, where in theory it is harder for a batsman like Stuart who is strongest off the front foot.

"When I go in I have always tried recently to say I'm going to get to 20 off 25 balls maximum," says Stuart. "And I've set myself to start scoring off the first ball, almost. I was a bit disappointed because I'd had two 29s and a 36, and I wasn't going through. But if you look at that 44, I was very surprised when I was given out against Warne [at Sydney], and I don't think it should have been out. I feel I was batting well, then, so that would have been a fifty for me, I believe, maybe a bigger score.

"In the last game I just went out there and said, `I've got to get a fifty.' I felt a bit of pressure on myself, but more importantly I did concentrate more on the strike rate and scoring quickly. I had the attitude when I first went in number three for Zimbabwe – a lot of the time with number three we have not had good partnerships up front – and I believe that was one of my challenges when I went in number three, to get a good partnership going. And I've been doing that since the start of the season. The only problem which I started looking at was that maybe I have been too slow, because I've been trying to concentrate more on getting a partnership for the team so that we have wickets at the end. But now, looking back on that, maybe we just needed some innings where I've only got say 70 off 95 balls, and maybe I'm missing out on another 10 to 15 runs which could be added on to the team. So maybe that was criticism of myself, but I've started learning that quickly now.

"Now I feel like I can both get partnerships going and also score quickly. I can get a partnership going just by being positive, and that's definitely my objective for the rest of the season: to go in at number three and be an aggressive player, becoming more of a risk-taker. If I can get 30 off 25 balls, people are now going to complain and say he's not scoring big runs, but if that 30 is an important 30 for the team off 25 balls, which will get the rate going quickly and guys can build partnerships from there, maybe that's more important. So that's what I'm going to try and do, score at more than a run a ball, and hopefully I can go through to a big score anyway and get the best of both worlds."

Stuart played against five different countries in three months; what were relationships like with these teams on the field?

"Pretty good," Stuart feels. "With Sri Lanka and India there's not a lot of chirping or sledging. I know I got myself into a bit of trouble by suggesting that the Kiwis sledged a little bit more than the Australians, because I was asked while in Australia if the Australians sledged more."

I suggested this may have been because we are a threat to the New Zealanders but not to the Australians; I understand the worst of the Australians came out in that final Test against West Indies when the tourists challenged them seriously for the first time. "Yes, sure," agrees Stuart. "Sledging's a big word because I don't want the Kiwis to think that they swear at us. There's a difference between swearing all the time and being competitive, and I actually appreciated the way the Kiwis were competitive and verbal, because it lifts my game. I don't have any problem with verbal aggression on the field; I don't have a problem with Chris Cairns or whoever coming up to me and having a few words with me because I think that's part of the game and that's good.

"Unfortunately it got mixed up a bit in the press with Shane Warne swearing at me after I hit him for those two sixes, and the swearing going back into homes [through the stump microphone]. Again, I don't mind Shane Warne being competitive against me and saying certain things to me. That problem was that it got to people's homes. But I had said that New Zealanders sledged a little bit more than Australians because that's right. They were more verbally aggressive, and that's what I'm saying; more competitive, I suppose. Australians can do it with the bat and ball; the New Zealanders, if they're in trouble, might have to use a lot more verbal to try and put that pressure on you."

Again I reminded him that the Australians didn't need to resort to sledging against us as they were much stronger than we. "That's right," agreed Stuart. "You know, when you're winning all the time and when you're under pressure to win – and I think we in Zimbabwe should be more verbal at certain times. It doesn't mean you're going to swear and be unfriendly because I'll say right now that I thought the New Zealanders were very nice guys; there's no one that I don't get on with, I think, in the New Zealand side. What they think of me is a different story, but I like to think that most of them get on with me, in the few times when I chatted with them.

"The Sri Lankans and the Indians we don't really speak to a lot on the field, but we get on well with them. They're always friendly; you walk past a lot of their players and they always greet you, and the same goes for the Australians. The Australians have some really nice guys in their team, and one thing that is great is when you meet some of Australia's top players, like the Waughs and Shane Warne, and they greet you first, and you think it should be the other way round; you should be looking up to them. They're very laid back off the field and we had some good chats to them after the games.

"So if cricket players are going to be verbal on the field, the most important thing is the camaraderie off the field. The West Indies again - I only know a few of their guys but they all seemed very nice guys, and I think there's a really good bunch of cricketers there off the field. That's my view, and you enjoy the game so much more."

West Indian captain Jimmy Adams had won the respect and admiration of the Zimbabwean players as a man when they toured the Caribbean a year ago, and I asked Stuart if they still felt the same way about him, now that Adams was under so much more pressure and captaining a declining team, with Zimbabwe now a major threat to them.

"You're talking about one guy who is a very nice guy there," says Stuart. "I think Jimmy knows that the West Indies are going through a tough time but they have got a few very talented younger guys coming through, so people need to remember that they really do have a very inexperienced side. But I believe there was no one else to captain the side at that time, so Jimmy took it upon himself, and I'm sure he's tried his best to try and get the team in the right direction. He's a very good player all round."

Returning to Stuart's comment that he thought Zimbabweans should sometimes be more verbal on the field, I pointed out to him that one of the reasons why Zimbabwe were so popular in countries even like Australia was that they did not stoop to that sort of tactic but played the game in traditional sporting fashion. "That's really good to hear," he said. "Don't get me wrong, John, when I say that we need to be a bit more verbal; I just mean that we need to be a bit more competitive. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't mean that our bowlers have to walk down the pitch every ball and start bringing swearing into it."

We recalled the Shane Warne incident, which I suggested was a simple lack of maturity and self-control. "Yes, it is," agreed Stuart. "He's regretted that and said he should never have done it. To be honest, I didn't hear him swear when I was out there because of the noise. He cans how his disappointment but there's no reason why he should swear. It's a hard one. To be honest, there's a lot of swearing that does happen; it always happened even if the olden days of cricket and it's always going to happen, and maybe it is getting worse. I disagree with the mike in the stump; I agree with the camera part of it where you can look at lbws or run-outs, but I don't think it's a good thing form the public's point of view to have a mike there for that reason. There are a lot of kids and they don't need to learn that kind of language."

I commented that this was what turned a lot of people off the Australians, and Stuart added, "A lot of people that we spoke to do not like Shane Warne for that reason, because he's over-aggressive and swears so much." I noted that in the South African weekly television programme Extra Cover there had been complaints from some South African viewers about the same sort of behaviour from their team.

I asked Stuart if he could account for the reason why the Zimbabweans played so much better against the Australians than against the West Indians, and his reply tended to bear out my theory, expressed last week. "Maybe it's a pressure thing," he said. "Maybe we knew we *had* to beat West Indies. It's like our fielding. When we're relaxed I believe we're one of the best fielding sides in the world. When we're tense and trying too hard, we put pressure on ourselves and things break down. So maybe we thought against Australia we would just go out there and play our natural game because we are a talented team and I don't believe for a moment we can't compete with the best teams in the world, and we've shown that for a few years.

"But going back to that point with the West Indies, we knew we *had* to win. I go back to that last game where we had to beat West Indies to get into the final and we got them all out for 178 and we did bowl well. In saying that, I've just been talking about pressure, but we took some good run-outs and we took our catches. So that's why the whole thing is so confusing.

"But where I think we went wrong was that it was the first time we had played at the WACA, and they bowled very well – Nixon McLean and Cameron Cuffy, especially Nixon McLean, and they extracted more bounce that day than Brett Lee and Glenn McGrath did the next day, because it was a newer pitch. They went hard at us, they had their slips and were aggressive. I think we went wrong in that our top four or five batsmen, me included, didn't talk about our game plan in the changing room. We thought we were going to go out there and get 175 [without any problems]. We should have said, `Let's be more conservative: we only have to go at three an over and we've got 50 overs to use. Let's see off the new ball bowlers and be no more than one wicket down after 15 overs, even if it's for only 40 runs. Then we can build from there, when the ball is older and we have wickets in hand.' I believe we went about it the wrong way; we didn't have a specific game plan.

"But there have been times in the past where we've had finals like in England – mind you, that was more a matter of losing the toss on a pitch like that, which was unfortunate – but we've been in finals or close to getting into finals, especially recently, which is a great sign because we're definitely getting better and better. We've just got to learn to deal with pressure better, and we've got to learn quickly."

I suggested that in this regard Andy Flower and Heath Streak stood well above most of the rest anyway. They had moved themselves into true world class while other experienced players had not, and the team had become over-reliant on their performances. "That's right," agreed Stuart. "In most sides around the world you're going to get your world-class players and it's good to see that Heath has become a world-class all-rounder, especially in his batting. This season his batting has been fantastic.

"People like Jimmy Adams can take on the captaincy and see his cricket go down, but Heath Streak has done the opposite. Since he's become captain, in playing terms he's done very well." I did point out, though, that at least as far as his results were concerned, his bowling had appeared to decline this season, although in the last few matches in Australia he had seemed back to his best form.

"You must remember that Heath has a lot of pressure on him," replied Stuart. "He is our only strike bowler at the moment when people like Travis Friend are injured; that's not to take anything away from the other bowlers at all, but to be honest he is our main wicket-taker. There's a lot of pressure on his bowling. He has also played in every game, whereas a lot of the younger bowlers especially have hardly had as many games put together. So I think he may have declined in a sense because he's had to work extra hard; maybe his energy levels were suffering.

"Andy Flower has been brilliant, especially in India. I think one must remember that he is 32 and he is our most experienced player by far. If you look at the next guys down, you're looking at Alistair Campbell and Grant Flower who are still only 29 or 30. They've been playing for a long time as well and I think Alistair is definitely maturing now as a batsman. He's proven that in the last year, but I think that if you've spoken to Alistair he could be even more consistent. He should be scoring those big-match innings, there's no doubt. It starts from putting your hand up at the top and working down, and one or two of us less experienced guys have put our hands up already. That's a very positive sign."

There has been a lot of speculation recently, in both Zimbabwe and Australia, that Murray Goodwin might be eager to play for Zimbabwe again, although that could not be before September, as he has a county contract with Sussex. The Zimbabweans met up with Murray in Perth, so I asked Stuart what the story was.

"We saw Murray and went to his house for dinner, a few of us," he said. "Murray didn't say directly that he wanted to come back, but you could sense it. I think he misses Zimbabwe, more importantly he misses the players because we were all brought up with him and get on well with him. I think he would like to . . . he can always come back if he's accepted by the Union and I'm sure they would. I think it would be great because Murray's an experienced player, and he's fortunate because he's been brought up in the Australian Academy. He's played cricket all his life, while there have been a few of us who have had breaks to do work or something, and haven't been professionals all our lives. He's come through the Australian Academy and been coached by some of the best players in the world, so he's got a fabulous technique, and he can win matches, as he's proven for Zimbabwe before. He's also a very nice guy, on and off the field, and his heart is definitely in Zimbabwe cricket."

So are there any moves to bring him back? "I think that is happening. I know Heath Streak has spoken to him privately; I know there are things on the go. And of course you have to think about Murray's wife Tarsha; it would be nice if Tarsha would actually support Murray a little bit more in that aspect, because it's one thing playing competitive first-class cricket, but it's a whole new ball game playing international cricket. It's every cricketer's dream to play international cricket, with the added crowds and TV coverage and the worldwide press and the greater competitiveness, and it's much bigger enjoyment, and I'm sure Murray will tell you that."

Stuart said there is talk of Murray playing for Zimbabwe again although keeping his home base in Australia. "I think it's a little hard because that means that some players here could go and stay in other countries and also turn round and say they want to play for Zimbabwe. So that might be a bit of a controversial issue, but it's definitely been talked about and I wouldn't be surprised if I saw Murray coming back here. But it's his choice, it's his decision and no one holds it against him. I know there have been a few problems with Murray and the Union recently, but I'm sure they could put that behind them. It would be good to see Murray come back here." Stuart's attitude is a credit to himself in a way, as his position at number three would be under most threat if Murray did return.

Which of the young Zimbabwean players does Stuart think benefited the most from the long tour?

"I'd like to believe that Brian Murphy has improved a lot already," was his opinion. "He's got a good head on him, he has a lot of theories that he believes in – some may be right, some may be wrong. He was very keen and worked very hard in the nets every session, and he also was fortunate to get Terry Jenner to come and coach him for a bit when we were in Adelaide. He went to see Shane Warne a lot and asked him about certain things, how he bowls to certain batters. He's very willing to learn and very willing to do well, and I like to think he's going to go far in the future. He's still very inexperienced, obviously; he hasn't played a lot but he's learning very quickly and I'm sure he'll do well.

"Of the other players we can go on to `Syke' Nkala. Syke really started maturing towards the end of the trick. He's had some good games and some bad games but I think he needs to work more on his consistency. He's very much a confidence man and that goes for his batting as well. He's a very nice guy and I think he could be a prospect for the future as an all-rounder, providing he builds his ankles up more as they're a little bit thin at the moment! He's got a very good head on him and he also knows a hell of a lot about the past history of cricket. You can ask him about any game played in the olden days up till now, and he'll tell you what game that was and all the stats. So if you ever need any more stats, don't go on the internet, go to Syke! He just needs to improve a bit more on his fielding, which he has been working on, and his speed across the field. He's still young and still learning a lot.

"Travis Friend has great potential and could be a big wicket-taker in future. He had a good trip to Sharjah and then started getting a lot of niggles. He now has a stress fracture in his back and at 19 years old I don't know the reason for that. I'm sure he learned a lot on the Aussie trip – I hope he did. I don't know if he was too young to go on that trip – maybe they should have sent a more experienced person as he was injured a lot, and he might have been better coming home and rebuilding.

"Maybe the same goes for Doug Marillier. He has been found out with his technique and I think he has to work hard on that. He does have a great eye for the ball and he can be very innovative, as he has shown in the last game. He had a brilliant little score there and he definitely has a lot of potential. He could be one of those players, a little like Guy Whittall at times, who can be very innovative, like sweeping Allan Donald. But I still think Doug has a lot to learn and I think he knows it.

"I think they now know how hard international cricket is. They've come from hardly any B games at all and been thrown straight into the deep end, and maybe that's something the selectors need to look at, because we had four or five young guys just thrown into a trip like Australia. It can also destroy players, and they need to go through the same channels that everyone else has gone through, which is going through the B side, maybe go on a Zimbabwe A trip – they need to start sending the second side on proper tours. They have the finances and if they don't realize the importance of those tours I find it very difficult to believe. We did have one tour of the A side to Sri Lanka; they may have been beaten badly but I can guarantee that they will have learned something. The next time they go to Sri Lanka it will be with the main side, and they can turn round and say, `I've been here before,' and at least they know the pitches, the conditions and everything else. So that's important.

"I know Guy Whittall struggled with his game, but he's got a good head on him and maybe the vice-captaincy was a new thing for him and it meant different pressures. He's a very experienced player and anyone who's scored double-hundreds in Test cricket is worth something. Maybe something the young guys could have learned was the way Guy worked really hard on his game because he knew he was struggling. He put in extra hours, so at least he was doing the right thing, and that's a lesson to be learned by all of us."

Guy was promoted to open the batting in both the Tests and the one-day games, and might even have earned Zimbabwe a win in that final match against West Indies if he had not been sawn off by a bad umpiring decision. "I think there's mixed feelings from Guy's point of view [about opening]," said Stuart, "because Guy can also be deadly at number six or seven. They are the hardest positions in one-day cricket and I know because I've played there. Guy is very good at being innovative, but he's also very much a confidence man. If he goes out and scores 70, for the next couple of games he'll do well, or be a lot more comfortable. But I'd like to see Guy opening the batting. I think he's got a good technique; he can get us off to a good start, and I think he started doing that towards the end."

Now that the players have returned home, they plunge straight into a full round of Logan Cup matches. I asked Stuart how the players feel about that after an arduous tour.

"It's been a hell of a long trip," Stuart agrees. "Three-quarters of us have been instructed to take a break by the cricket management and the Union, so I think for the first two rounds of the Logan Cup you won't be seeing many of the national players. I know it's hard because you need to have a good start to the Logan Cup, but there are a lot of guys, especially the bowlers, who have niggles. One or two, like Travis Friend, won't be playing at all because he has a stress fracture. I personally have a wedding in two weeks' time, so I have that to organize! But most of the guys have been told to take a rest, at least mentally, and some of the guys for longer than three weeks.

"So I think the last three games of the Logan Cup will be a bit stronger, and for the first three we'll see a lot of new faces. But the guys have been talking about the Logan Cup in the last month, so there's a lot of interest in it, because for the first time there are six teams and we think it's great.

"But some of the guys were going to spread the game; I know certain individuals were going to go to Manicaland and I've been asked to go to Midlands. I was going to do that with Craig Wishart, but certain individuals on the Mashonaland Board have turned around and said they don't want us to go. I think it's very sad because we've got a lot of players in Mashonaland and if just two or three of the national guys had gone to Midlands or Mashonaland we'd be spreading the game. We'd be strengthening the other sides and passing experience on.

"If I had gone to Midlands with Craig Wishart, and Dirk Viljoen was another name mentioned, that would be three of the national guys going there. Craig has been released to go there; for some reason he's the only guy who has been released. If you have a nucleus of three national players in each province, and another three guys from the old Academy and another three who are part of the new Academy, and another three or four youngsters from that area, that would be a great way to develop a strong side.

"I know Midlands didn't want too many [national players] because they want to make sure they push through at least four local guys from the Kwekwe area, so they have at least four Midlands guys in every team – which is logical. Apparently there are a lot of good youngsters out there. Dave Houghton will also vouch for this, spreading the game, and now we have certain individuals on the Mashonaland Board who are trying to keep us for some reason when we have by far the strongest team in the country in Mashonaland. I don't know what the thinking is behind that, but it's sad."

Stuart concludes, "It's good to be back home. I'm sure after two or three weeks, a good break, we'll get back into the Logan Cup and get stuck into Bangladesh. It should be an interesting tour and I'm sure the guys aren't going to take that lightly at all. It would be an opportunity for us, without sounding over-confident at all, to win some Test matches, and maybe that's what we need to get us going. Then India and West Indies come, and we know we can beat them here as well. So providing they use the right balance in the squad, I'm sure we can do it."

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